Disclaimer: This is not your guide to make it to Karachi Grammar School. It's an attempt to understand the admission system and more so taking out the garbage in my mind.
Yes! I'm frustrated and I am writing this piece in this state only...
I am one out of those thousand of parents whose child didn't make it to the golden list of 110 odd students who qualified for the Karachi grammar's Nursery programme.
KGS criteria seems predictable and every parent who applies knows it by heart. Still we apply.
The drama started when I woke up for fajr and took my prayer mat to the school fearing I'd get late to collect the token. Funny how worried parents in the line ahead of me started fretting on me not bringing Aahmad's documents when the website clearly spelled out you need to be a "parent" to collect the token. Maybe they weren't sure it was their child they were applying for and so wanted to ascertain the fact via the birth certificate. Anyways, they did scare me and I didn't want to go home without the golden token (ticket) , so I woke up Bushra (my wife) to re confirm. She whatsapped me the announcement again but it didn't strike well with the people around me so I had to go all the way to the front of the line (yes, it was a longline...more on this later) to check with the guard. The polite guy told me you only need to be a parent to tango.
The man in front of me consoled himself by saying "it's good to be safe"- the competition had already started. The man reminded me of this class fellow of mine back in school, Altamash (May his soul rest in patience) who would hide his exam paper and cry when he stood second in class (no, I was not first).
Anyways, I prayed on the mat and they let me leave the line and join back fortunately. We talked movies and Oscars and I'm sure that was the last topic we cared about. But we talked.
The siren was about to go (yes I'm exaggerating) and the men in uniform announced "... the gate is about to open, parents only in the line please". Hearing this, the guards, the maalis, the drivers...all stepped out to give their place to their "sahabs" and "bajis". My first moment of truth- I was a nobody And I need a driver.
The line started to move in early and it was very well organized. The school inside actually was nice (better than the house type school or school type houses). The line was well disciplineded, only thing was "finger on ur lips" and "shoulder distance". I collected the token with a sigh of relief. It mentioned a date when we would submit the documents and get the interview date.
The interview day:
I had taken 2 weeks off from work just to prepare my son for this day. We followed all guidance that the experienced lot shared with us.
We woke up early having slept early in the night so that Aahmad is fresh and active.
When we reached, we got very conscious, it felt that there were hidden cameras watching our moves. The uncle who greeted us at the gate reception was frighteningly hospitable and helpful. He guided us to the main hall. Experienced lot had told us not to arrive early since the wait would kill the spirit of the child and they will get bored and tired. We arrived in the waiting area just minutes before our time. Aahmad handed the teacher in the waiting area a toffee (I swear we didn't train him on this. It was a surprise for us as well. Aahmad is very possessive and doesn't believe in sharing just like his baba)
The waiting area had a books rack and a table with crayons and sheets. Aahmad likes colouring so I helped him sit on the table chairs. The story book reading attempt didn't work for me. They called us inside the head mistress room. Aahmad didn't greet the old lady (damn, we prepared him well for this one). He did sit himself on the small table and the other teacher took him to the secret room (this mystery is still not solved) when the child leaves the secret room, he has promised inside not to utter a word on what was in the room or what he did.
The head mistresses didn't ask the questions we had prepared for (how do you spend time with ur son? Who drops him to school? How often do you meet your family? What time he sleeps? He drinks milk in a glass or a feeder? ) her questions were very general and I was waiting throughout the interview when she would come to the real questions. She didn't; in fact she ended the interview and said thank you. She also mentioned lets just hope your son does well too like you did. We were happy she liked us, not knowing that was the trap.
We waited outside for Aahmad to come out. Aahmad came out of the room very happy and jumped in my arms like he does.
Leaving the school, we were satisfied, waiting for our name in the list.
We didn't make it to the list.
Key notes (for myself)
1. It was my mom's fault to get married in a non-junejo,non-bhutto, non-grammarian family.
2. It was my dad's fault not to enroll me in kgs when I was young- too late to enroll myself now and get the privilege of being called a grammarian and access to elite life for my child.
3. I am gonna have a third child- I will name him Grammar Gul Khan. That's the max. I can do when the first 2 points are written already in history and it's the only thing in my control.
Key take outs (for the readers)
1. No need to stand in line early. They give the token to everyone during the alloted time so no need to make yours or your cook's life miserable.
2. You will be convinced post the interview that you are the chosen one- all parents I interviewed said the head mistress loved them and their pappu went in himself and answered everything the aunty asked. It's a trap.
3. There are 4 tier of people (this defies Maslow's need theory):
a. A grammarian
b. A junejo
c. A governor
d. None of the above- the shudar, the outcast.
4. If you are already married, file divorce immediately in case your partner falls in "d" category.
5. If you are not already married, following is the exhaustive list of the choice you have:
A. A grammarian boy or girl- ugly, amputee, one eye blind would also do.
B. A junejo, a talpur, a governor's son (or the governor himself), a Bhutto, a maskatiya and the likes.
You might not to be the first husband or wife but don't bother thinking. JUST DO IT.
The line started to move in early and it was very well organized. The school inside actually was nice (better than the house type school or school type houses). The line was well disciplineded, only thing was "finger on ur lips" and "shoulder distance". I collected the token with a sigh of relief. It mentioned a date when we would submit the documents and get the interview date.
The interview day:
I had taken 2 weeks off from work just to prepare my son for this day. We followed all guidance that the experienced lot shared with us.
We woke up early having slept early in the night so that Aahmad is fresh and active.
When we reached, we got very conscious, it felt that there were hidden cameras watching our moves. The uncle who greeted us at the gate reception was frighteningly hospitable and helpful. He guided us to the main hall. Experienced lot had told us not to arrive early since the wait would kill the spirit of the child and they will get bored and tired. We arrived in the waiting area just minutes before our time. Aahmad handed the teacher in the waiting area a toffee (I swear we didn't train him on this. It was a surprise for us as well. Aahmad is very possessive and doesn't believe in sharing just like his baba)
The waiting area had a books rack and a table with crayons and sheets. Aahmad likes colouring so I helped him sit on the table chairs. The story book reading attempt didn't work for me. They called us inside the head mistress room. Aahmad didn't greet the old lady (damn, we prepared him well for this one). He did sit himself on the small table and the other teacher took him to the secret room (this mystery is still not solved) when the child leaves the secret room, he has promised inside not to utter a word on what was in the room or what he did.
The head mistresses didn't ask the questions we had prepared for (how do you spend time with ur son? Who drops him to school? How often do you meet your family? What time he sleeps? He drinks milk in a glass or a feeder? ) her questions were very general and I was waiting throughout the interview when she would come to the real questions. She didn't; in fact she ended the interview and said thank you. She also mentioned lets just hope your son does well too like you did. We were happy she liked us, not knowing that was the trap.
We waited outside for Aahmad to come out. Aahmad came out of the room very happy and jumped in my arms like he does.
Leaving the school, we were satisfied, waiting for our name in the list.
We didn't make it to the list.
Key notes (for myself)
1. It was my mom's fault to get married in a non-junejo,non-bhutto, non-grammarian family.
2. It was my dad's fault not to enroll me in kgs when I was young- too late to enroll myself now and get the privilege of being called a grammarian and access to elite life for my child.
3. I am gonna have a third child- I will name him Grammar Gul Khan. That's the max. I can do when the first 2 points are written already in history and it's the only thing in my control.
Key take outs (for the readers)
1. No need to stand in line early. They give the token to everyone during the alloted time so no need to make yours or your cook's life miserable.
2. You will be convinced post the interview that you are the chosen one- all parents I interviewed said the head mistress loved them and their pappu went in himself and answered everything the aunty asked. It's a trap.
3. There are 4 tier of people (this defies Maslow's need theory):
a. A grammarian
b. A junejo
c. A governor
d. None of the above- the shudar, the outcast.
4. If you are already married, file divorce immediately in case your partner falls in "d" category.
5. If you are not already married, following is the exhaustive list of the choice you have:
A. A grammarian boy or girl- ugly, amputee, one eye blind would also do.
B. A junejo, a talpur, a governor's son (or the governor himself), a Bhutto, a maskatiya and the likes.
You might not to be the first husband or wife but don't bother thinking. JUST DO IT.
Shabz.. i can completely relate to this!..
ReplyDeleteXeynab
Lol Shahbaz. wait for my reply to your blog post ;)
ReplyDeleteWell written - though given a friend of mine got his first born in (coming from a humble background himself and not meeting any of the above criteria outlined in the article), this blog still comes across as sour grapes.
ReplyDeletePersonally, I think any school where they actually teach in class is better than grammar, which is a social status symbol anyways.
Hi! Well to say the least, there are always two sides to a coin and similarly this situation has many viewpoints. I went to KGS after my O levels, for my A levels and after studying in 12 schools in my academic life since nursery (my father was a govt servant so we hoppes around the whole country due to his transfers).. I knew in the first week that this school was a class apart from the lot. It has nothing to do with the students' fathers designations but rather with the vision of the minds that run its administration. From the guard... all the way up to the Headmistress, each person is well aware of their roles in the education of "a future" which has been entrusted to them. Shahbaz, im not sure how many Grammarians u know on a personal level but all my siblings went to this school and your viewpoint is quite coloured to put it politely.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteBenazir Bhutto Shaheed ring a bell miss Saima?
DeleteAlso to answer your question, a child has a certain intellectual capacity and drive that sets him/her apart from the rest. It is obviously transferred through the parents.. In order to qualify for that elite status and be amongst the brightest future minds of the country, you need that little bit extra.
DeleteI am an ex Grammarian and my parents were neither government servants nor ex grammarians.. So i completely disagree with Mr. Shabaz Khan's story. Not everyone deserves to stand and grow amongst the brightest future minds of the country.. Academic excellence along with well mannered grooming is the most important criteria.. You also obviously need to be very ambitious and highly talented parent in order to train and groom your kid accordingly.. That is what counts more than anything else..
Leaders don't like to wait in line.. They don't like to follow orders.. They make their own way through curiosity and unrelenting drive to achieve the impossible.. They are also highly ambitious.. You need to dream big to achieve it.. For all that; you need to be a cut above the rest.. Everything else comes automatically..
Do you have that quality and have you transferred it to your kids? Do you spend time with them and fuel their curiosity? Ask yourself that.. Do you fit that category?
Miss Saima, with all due respect, it would do you good of you actually carried out some research before making tall claims. In case you're looking for examples for Grammarians in the education sector:
DeleteAmber Riaz- CEO Teach For Pakistan (TFP). The TFP office in Karachi itself has 3-4 Grammarians employed.
Ahsan Jamil Khan: CEO Aman Foundation. Aman Foundation is a social entrepreneurship firm aimed at providing the lowest strata of the society with vocational and technical skills, has an excellent ambulance network and much more. visit their website for your satisfaction.
These are just two examples i know of, I'm sure if you look around, you'll find many. Cheers!
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Deleteclearly saima feels she got the short stick in the draw of life.
Deletelol saima thats quite the response to end your argument with
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DeleteWell written Shahbaz and who knows better since we both have been in the same boat :) But im glad that the rat race has ended....I love my daughter and I know she is brilliant....guess we as parents weren't junejos/chandios/ex-gramarians etc etc ....my only question is that why do they make fool out of the parents by not asking questions about relevant to our child instead talk about the changing HR industry in last 2 decades....I could see that the Principal didn't know jackshit and couldn't even apprehend what me & my wife (both HR professionals) were talking about.....what I recommend to KGS administration is for them to stop this DRAMA...just freakin get all ex-gramarians children/siblings/governor booked seats/junejos etc...and then if there are some slots left...only then advertise or just don't bother !! what a waste of my time and energy....I have personally excelled much higher than many many gramarians that I know of even then I fell into the trap...! I'm ashamed !
ReplyDelete@sana: Well the fact that you say all your siblings went to the same school says it all...so its not the brain that necessarily played the role...Anyways I respect your views and experiences...
Hey, I'm sorry your kid didn't make it but you know what, plenty of people who are not Grammarians, Bhuttos, Maskatiyas or whatever do get their kids in, and you'd be surprised at how many siblings have not been getting in for the at least the past few years. The list is becoming more merit-based by the year, which is great to see. You never know what happened in the final ranking - your son may have literally lost out by a point to someone else, who may just have had a slightly better day in the testing room that day. And as you yourself said, it's perfectly okay. There are other awesome schools out there. No need to bash KGS for it, and certainly no need to bash parents whose kids did get in.
ReplyDeleteJust ask yourself what the post would've been if your son had gotten in but, say, your best friend's son hadn't. Would it have been the same post? No matter how frustrated you are, you're an adult and you have a choice before you put up a post that accuses an institution of not caring about merit and telling successful candidates' parents that they're rats in a race. Leaves a bad taste in the mouth.
I do wish your son all the best, though. He sounds like a great kid. May he go far in life.
Regards
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DeleteWe know what a rat race is.. We don't partake in it because we play the flutes that guide the rats to race.. ;)
DeleteQuit bashing Karachi Grammar School!
Our main source of remittances from abroad are mostly Ex Grammarians working real hard to make a name and give a positive image of Pakistan in other countries..
The first Prime Minister of a muslim country aka Pakistan was an ex Grammarian ( Shaheed Benazir Bhutto)
We are leaders in our respective fields and Heads of various organisations..
List can keep going on so stop hating..
Im sure your kids have bright minds and a very bright future ahead.. Karachi Grammar School is arguably considered the best school in Pakistan.. The most deserving are the ones who make it.. So don't hate them for it.. That is not what Islam and our Prophet (SAW) taught us..
Peace!
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DeleteWell I do agree with Blue Wit to an extent but if more than 500 parents were rejected....I would really be interested to explore the 110 cases that got approved....I wish if I could somehow get the brief details to see the connections....siblings...influence...donations...ex-gramarians parents,,,,,and see who remains...That would only give me peace at heart that either myself/my child may not be as good as others! Also, Merit is Merit...there should be no preference of any kind....while KGS openly says that they give preference to ex-gramarians/siblings. With 110 slots only....each seat matters....and everybody needs to be treated with fairness and equality. May the brightest kid enter...and May all siblings/ex-grammarian parents lose...they should leave it to the true definition of MERIT ! a percentage breakup of 110 current enrollments would greatly help all the 500 rejected parents live their life in peace :)
ReplyDeleteWhy the brightest kid enter?? How can you tell in 10 mins that child A is brighter than child B and that too at age 5??? All children bright or not deserve the best education!
DeleteOk so if there are 2 kids. and are asked to sort out colours etc. A does it in 1 min and B takes 5 min. Whom would you give admission to. both of them did it. But the more efficient one gets the ticket.
DeleteAnd yes if a sibling is not up to the mark they are rejected. Personally know a friend this happened to,
Also many if not all organisations never release the details to the public. Their is some thing known as confidentiality. If you knew exactly what to do what would be the point. You have to work hard to get to that level
You don't take rejection well do you sir? I'll tell you this, our kid got in last year and neither me or my husband are a grammarian and we sure as hell don't belong to a family of the rich and famous. In fact both me and my husband didn't go through a professional/formal degree because we had to start work early. Actually most of the kids in my daughter's class are not from the untouchables. We didn't take two weeks off from work to train her and we didn't put her into any grammarian preparatory class. We didn't stand in line for hours neither did we make our maali or guard stand in our place. Yes we slept early and woke up early and were a bit nervous as is the case with any interview. Many I know didn't even apply because they feared rejection- and I think it was foolish of them because they killed that 1% chance of their kid studying from an institution like that (and we cant deny that there are only a few schools left with quality education). We to date don't know what my daughter was asked inside. As with any other place, be it a job interview or another school, even for the US visa for that matter. you are never told or shown in the interview that you will be rejected unless you do or say something obviously stupid or offensive. It always goes back to the desks of those who decide as per whatever merit they have set. I'm sorry Ahmad didn't get in, but I'm sure he'll do much better ANY place else. Because its definitely not the end of the world, unless you want to make it.
ReplyDeleteCould agree more. It is not only true for KGS but alot of other schools in KHI. A good school is not the one that takes in the brightest child and makes him /her a topper in fact a good school takes an average child and turns him/her around. Thats where the challenge lies. A bright will always shine bright no matter where they go. They have made it a rat race for parents!! and the jewel in crown is the tuitions!!! when the school claims to be the best then why do they their so called elite teachers offer such expensive tuition to the the BRIGHT CHILD selected who just made it by a difference of one point. This is all non sense. Our country can never uproot itself from this pathetic mentality of class and standards. And only a minority is there who doesn't belong to any category mentioned in the article. A vast majority of kids are actually of well known families and ex-grammarians. There is no objective criteria for admissions in any school. it is just a rat race.
ReplyDeleteI am sorry dat ur son didnt make it and i can kind of understand ur frustration and anger as it is a common human trait to come up wd explainations or excuses to make ourselves feel better but sometimes these excuses or 'bashings' can sound more like sour grapes. Let me tell u why, i am also a parent of one of those 111 children who got admission in this school n let me assure u dat v r not grammarians or hav fancy last names or meet any of the other attributes u so nicely described above. Me n my hisband both come from 'extremely' humble backgrounds n v hav studied from da schools whose names u may never hav heard of. V wr so far removed frm kgs dat v had never seen da inside of this school until da admission procedures. V may probably hav extremely distant relatives who may hav gone to this school but i cant recall any. Basically since v knew v had no 'connections' but v still wanted to giv our child dat 'option' n for dat v worked hard. Over da past 2 yrz i hav done a bit of research on this school and came to a conclusion dat yes, if my child got in here, her academic life was most probably set for life n i got to know many people who wr like me n who 'got in' purely on merit. V also tried to understand what the school was looking for from us as parents n from our child. So yes we worked hard, not by sending our child to any kgs preparatory classes or by taking 2 week leave frm office but by working on her overall confidence over da course of 2 years. Our child went everywhere wd us, n was encouraged to speak n interact wd ppl of all ages. We read up on the school... A lot. And the more v read, the more v kept getting impressed by the school's overall significance in shaping up their students. Throughout our 'quest' for school admission, v made sure v didnt let our child feel stressed. Yes, our child ws made to sleep early on the night bfor da test but that was about it. V knew v didnt hav a strong chance notttt because of lack of 'influential bacground' but because of da extremely tough competition and getting in wil not prove our credibility in da society but may just mean dat my child had a 'good morning' n hence did well in da 'secret room' n here may i add dat my child did tell me wat happened thr, in detail. Let me assure u, it was no rocket science.
ReplyDeleteThe reason for my writing is not to make u feel bad but just to try n clear da extreme misunderstanding. As for siblings, y is dat so bad about siblings being preferred? Wouldnt u want all ur children in da same school? Even here, let me add dat i do know of a few ppl who didnt get in evn wd da subling thr. Kgs isnt da end of the world, but y criticise the children who made it on merit?
As for the interviewer, it is sad to read dat ppl would feel superior n feel she was dumb enough to not understand a word of those 'HR paractices' dat someone discussed. My answer to u is to please have some respect for someone who is sitting on that level and im sure she knows and understand a lot mor dan u can comprehend on da industry norms n cultures of different sectors as she gets to meet and interact wd a lot more ppl of the highest level dat u can 'probably' only dream of.
All the best to ur son as he surely sounds like a great kid n im sure he wil do well in life.
well congrats that you are a 'researcher' - made us feel as if we didn't do any ! I wouldn't spend time on responding to your different claims but without any research on me & my profile - ur comment on 'Interviewer' meeting "HIGHEST LEVEL" people (that I CANNOT imagine!!) was low ! I exactly know what 'Highest Level People' are you referring to and that's the paradigm we wish to break ! All the best for your Child...
Delete@dilawar, not at all basking in any glory bt v know fr sure v wudnt hav bad mouthed da school as v wr well aware of da possibilities due to da tough competition.
Delete@qasim, wen u hear ppl say dat da lady knew 'jackshit' about da changing HR trends wen u hav only met hr fr all of 5 mins, then expect certain replies too plz
Well both my sons got in. I am not a grammarian neither is my wife. Nor I am a bhutto or maskatiya or junejo or a governor. Rat race for good schools is all over the world, be it London, Delhi, Lahore or Karachi. At the end of the day it's an institution old and reputable one, otherwise u wouldn't have taken your prayer mat along.
ReplyDeleteHey guys take a chill pill. I myself have never felt the need to stand in the Grammar line. It's all in your minds. Every capable person does well no matter where he or she goes to school.
ReplyDeleteagreed. r all grammarian more intelligent than students of all other schools. All i can say is that it is a status symbol, for havent you heard the best minds never had any formal eductation
DeleteI agree 100% with Izza Khan and also Taimur i have a son and daughter both in the school and nor me or my wife were Grammarians. We also neither sent them for KGS prepartory classes or any other place to train them to perform and answer to the likings of the teacher/principal.
ReplyDeleteI have came across great Parents in KGS and most of them are neither Bhuttos, Governors, Talpurs etc etc and even if they are how could you say that there childrens got in because of their big family names or connections. There children could have been more smarter than the lot and so could be their parents.
All i need to mention to you that when we went for the interview for my son i taught him only one thing and also said the same to my wife as well. JUST BE YOURSELF.............. ITS NOT THE END OF THE WORLD..... I am sure Shabaz you son would make you proud in life butto raise you finger on other childrens and parents whose Children get is not morally and enthcally right,,,& one should accept defeat with Grace all i can say... Cheers!!!
Defeat ! lolz..well that mindset says it all....All the best!
DeleteIn the first place, I fail to understand why only after rejection of admission to your child have u changed your mind set? Y is it the end of the world for you if kgs didnt take him? there r other schools that are known to have the best groomed children with top of the line education, knowledge, and personality development. With all due respect, I feel you should just sit back, relax, and try for another school instead of dwelling in the misery that your child didn't make it. whenever something that you want, doesnt happen, take it a sign from God, and being content with the fact that God has better plans for Aahmad, In Sha Allah! What is the guarantee that your child would have had a life in grammar that he cannot have anywhere else? Why inject and instill such negativity in the the family, the child, and the society as a whole? Think about it: You tried your level best, You put in your effort, I understand, but take it as an experience, not as a wrath upon yourself! I am not a grammarian myself and I have honestly never ever felt the 'craving' to be part of grammar. I landed a better job than most grammarians on my interview day, did. So what is there to prove? You as a parent, instead of feeling so emotionally insecure and shattered just bcoz ur son didnt make it to kgs; needs to be positive, and certain that if hes meant to excel, he will do it anywhere in the world! If not, KGS wouldnt solve anything for him! The rat race cannot end with such mindsets. We need to work toward achieving an altogether a different mindset, which I foresee, is millions of years ahead!
ReplyDeleteit is remarkable how intelligent people give into stereo types. my child goes to grammer as do the children of some of my very good friends. and what strikes me the most odd is how un-grammarian we all are. i myself went to foundation public - which i continue to rate as an excellent education center. same is true with a number of my others friends - that is they all went to excellent non-grammar education centers. even the parents of the other children in my childs class are pretty well grounded, non-junejo middle class people. there are the rich, influential lot as well; but its a fair remarkably fair balance given the perception people have about KGS. but what is the code than if its not a childs lineage? i think the biggest commonality between all the kids i have seen is the command of spoken english. all the children in my sons class are very fluent in english and also exude considerable confidence. this is no way to imply that your child or that of others are probably weak in english skills. but that is my observation and i think a lot of grammarian parents will concur
ReplyDeleteListen man, what you have written is highly offensive and there is no way you can back your claims such as prominent names are guaranteed admission etc. That is not true, and the system of rejecting applicants capable of becoming powerful leaders of society in the future exists in all leading institutions and organizations! So, you being an educated person and striving hard for your child's admission have completely misunderstood the school's criteria. Since we applicants are not part of the governing body or decision making team, its easy to blame the whos who and others- I can't imagine how you would deal with about a 1000 applicantions for a 110 spots including your child's???
ReplyDeletei can only laugh on the comments before me, time has came when we have to back our or our children's education by a name like KGS, City, LeCole or Beaconhouse or else us or our child will be an outcast in the social system. sigh!!!!!
ReplyDeleteEducation is what parents give to their children, and if parents are doing well on their side then there is no need of these KGS, Beacon or Citi.
P.S - just to avoid criticism from others, i have done my schooling from Brilliant Career School in North Karachi, my college was Pakistan Educational Foundation at Sh-e-Faisal, my Masters and Bachelors is from Iqra University and now i am working with Citigroup London. never had any KGS or Beacon or City in my name, yet i am professionally successful because of the education imparted to me by my parents in addition to the curriculum knowledge given out it school.
regards,
Saqueb
i salute u, saqueb
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DeleteI completely disagree with this article.
ReplyDeleteBoth of my brothers study at KGS. Our parents, grand parents, great grand parents and so on are NOT Ex Grammarians.
We are not some Bhutto, Wadera family.
We are not related to any government institution.
So all that is absolute crap.
Before the interview for both my brothers people, experienced people as mentioned in this article gave us tips on how to answer the questions. We listened politely and did our own thing.
E.g. My brother was asked what he did in the summer vacations. Now most people take their kids to Disneyland, Paris, Dubai etc to have some thing good to say. My brother attended a gardening course and volunteered at a flower festival. This was something unique and non cosmetic.
They ask general questions to determine the type of people the parents are. Just telling your kid to greet the teacher is not going to cut it. This a lesson for life and the child has to be trained since birth. They don't want 2 minute good noodles. What they want is properly trained kids.With parents who will actually make an effort.
Stop blaming KGS. Blame your self for not being yourself.
P.S Our parents are highly religious. People told our mother not to wear Burka but she did and it did not matter in the intervuiew. Be your self. Not some one else
I got rejected for A levels after completing my o levels I 2 years instead of 3 with 5 A's.. which was an amazing result in 2002... do j even care? No.. move on... since when have schools decided fates! Im as good as I would have been if I went to KGS.. coz the choices you make after school, are your own.. the opportunities you create, are through your own endeavors.. and the ability to acheive and the habbit to strive for excellence, is a process of self realization and effort.. school plays a small part.
ReplyDeleteI went to KGS in the 80's, as did my brothers. The education was good enough, the teachers were very inspiring, but in the end, i learnt more when i didnt get into AKU and ended up at Dow Medical College. From the bubble that was KGS to Dow was quite an awakening.
ReplyDeleteI think, in the end, i realized the huge disparity
In the educational system in Pakistan. I realized i had become arrogant and elitist, without realizing it then.
Does getting into KGS translate to success ? Depends on how you define success. Plenty of my medical school colleagues came from all sorts of diff schools and are amazingly successful and philanthropic.
well-said - totally agree! its the subconscious mindset that we are not aware off...
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ReplyDeletewith all due respect.
ReplyDeletewasn't born in a junejo/bhutto/khan family, went to City School, brother went to KGS though as did a lot of our cousins. Cousins also went to school in non-bullet proof cars without extra space for armed guards. Brother now lives in Canada - works. I moved back to Pakistan, I also work. Most of the people in my office are from local universities. Quite brilliant. Your son can go to any school he wants to, all children are brilliant in their own right.
The real education he'll get is from you and Bushra. You'll help him find and sell himself and his abilities to the world. He could be home schooled and still be a success.
There is nothing that this or any other school can offer which you can not offer better in the comfort of your own home. Like you said, even though you may win the rat race, at the end of it all, you're still a rat.
p.s. if all else fails, hold him back for a grade (make him repeat a grade) so he'll be above the rest ;)
I can understand the frustration...I am a grammarian and both my sons are too. Now you can say they got in because I am a grammarian but they are both smart as well. My eldest one has come first in his class throughout and I'm quite sure my younger one will do as well when he gets graded next year. So you decide...was it merit or was it just because I'm a Grammarian? Either way the school made the right choice.
ReplyDeleteI understand your frustration. Speaking from my personal experience, 4 years ago I got a chance to interview some 'High Achievers' who secured top positions in Cambridge Exams (A/O level exams) from different schools in Karachi. There were about 4 students from KGS and all of them were from middle class 'normal' families. I also know a grammarian whose father was a just a journalist. This is the only experience I had with Grammarians! Never attempted to get my children admitted in KGS (because I thought I won't afford it) :D
ReplyDeleteThis seems to be a rant and not much else. I am a grammarian too, my father is a 9-5 job holder. I come from a humble back ground and am not at all a talpur, bugti or whatever names the author has mentioned. When i got admission into KGS, i made a lot of friends who were from similar backgrounds. Some were from lesser privileged families, and they were given scholarships etc by the school. So please don't portray yourself as a victim. My two sisters also applied to KGS after me, they got rejected. I never saw my parents complaining like you are here. Your child wasn't probably good enough to be in the 110 that do go in. Accept that and move on.
ReplyDeleteWait- so you're saying that you believe that your son deserved to get in?! And the fact that he didn't dissatisfies you?! This is shocking you're view is entirely unique, I've never encountered a parent who felt the same way. Kudos and a great example to set for your child- we can do no wrong its only other people who can wrong us. Grow up buddy, opportunities come and go.
ReplyDeleteIf you guys hate this school and its system so much why do you even bother to get your kids enrolled in it?
ReplyDeleteCompetitive admissions to educational institutions at any level require that there will be students who are not able to be admitted. Imagine trying to sort out which child gets in when you have over 500 equally compelling applications for 110 places. How would you do it? There is no science to this, it often becomes a matter of judgment and experience. Sure, people sometimes get a helping hand for a variety of reasons but that is no different from any individual giving preference to members of their own family or friends. To make it some sort of litmus test for your child or the institution is manifestly unfair.,
ReplyDeleteFor the record, I am a Grammarian from KG to A Levels. I have worked as an admissions professional at a top US university in Washington DC (think Hoyas) and now serve as Principal of an institution in Karachi. We used to get over 13000 applications for 1400 places from amazing students with strong grades, recommendations and non-academic achievements. It was often splitting hairs that got someone in or left them out. Sure, alumni children and some special interests were accommodated but they represented a very small percentage of the 1400. Once admissions letters went out, the very same parents who thought their child was exceptional would ask me what their child did wrong not to be offered a place! My answer was always the same ... they were good enough, we just did not have enough places for everyone we wanted to take ... and as human beings, we made some decisions. Perfect or not, we did our best and that was the simple truth. Sure, we make many great decisions and probably some really bad ones. But, like KGS every year, you cannot expect to get an answer on every case they took or not because there probably is no concrete reason one way or another!
Our son was eligible to apply to any school and I chose not to apply to KGS after discussion with my wife. We also had a chance to apply later but again, there was not even a thought. Why? Because we felt our child fit better at another school and it was the right place for him. Sure, I think there is a pretty good chance he would have gotten in because he is very bright and there is a major KGS connection, but it was not right for him in our opinion. Doesn't make KGS bad, just our choice. We are confident that we made the right decision because he is very happy at his current school and we can see how much he is progressing in the right environment for him.
I understand the disappointment and frustration at not being able to know why one child got in or the other didn't. But to direct such negative comments at an institution or its staff without any evidence to support them, is unfair. As a parent, you need to remember that it is very important for your child to find the right school, college, spouse, job etc etc ... but what is right for THEM, not what conventional wisdom dictates. Also just because some opportunity did not work out for them ... it does not make them a second class anything. That they can be happy and successful wherever they go. However, you set the tone so please, let the anger go and reason prevail. I am sure that your son will do well no matter where he goes and admission to KGS bears no reflection on him or his family!
Dear Shahbaz,
ReplyDeleteI am sorry but your entire article just really makes you sound like a sore loser. I attended KGS for 15 years, from Nursery through to A Levels after which I went to college in the US.
Firstly I'd just like to tell you that I'm sure your child is very intelligent but the list of 110 is not a "golden list." It is unfortunate that your child did not get in but just like any other top school the admission process is going to be very selective. Think about it this way. If you want your child to get into a great college ie: Harvard, Yale, Princeton etc your child must stand out and he must be exceptional. Normally students who apply to these schools are exceptional (10A's O Levels, 5A's A Levels, 2200+ SAT score). However these colleges are looking for something else, something unique and while your son must have been smart maybe he did not have that unique, defining quality in him. Also look at it this way, if these colleges opened their doors to a greater number of students and increased their admission rates they would not be looked at in the same way. A good school is always going to be competitive and difficult to get into and it requires more than just intelligence to get in.
Secondly, I'd like to address the key notes for yourself:
1) In my time at KGS in my entire class, the two classes above mine and the two classes below mine there were only 4-5 students with the last names you have mentioned (which I assume are names which have a lot of privilege or respect in Pakistan). So what this basically means is that out of 5 classes of around 200 students in each class, there were only 4 to 5 students with respected family names. That gives these people with respected family names a success rate of around 0.4% which is obviously not that high.
2) Being an old grammarian does not give you any preference. I know of parents who are grammarians but whose children are not grammarians. Also, I'd like to tell you that of all the people I knew in my class there were very few students whose parents were old grammarians. Also, just as a point of information those friends of mine went to the best colleges in the world ie: UChicago, Berkeley, Stanford. So they obviously deserved to be grammarians and the school made the right decision to accept them.
3) Your third point is just absurd and portrays you to be a bad loser.
KGS is honestly not a very good school in terms of imparting education. I will be honest with you when I say that I hated KGS when I got to college section but by then KGS had already given me everything it had to offer. KGS teaches you manners and discipline. From keeping your nails clean to polishing your shoes to wearing the right uniform to not having long hair or hair that was untied. Its an entire process from Nursery to A Levels. And in my opinion they only take those students who will go through the process and will be able to take the most out of it.
I think you should accept defeat gracefully and not try and take away anything from the efforts of the other children and parents who's children did get in. Maybe they were just better prepared than you and your child were. I am sure you worked hard and so did your son but maybe the other parents and their children were just better prepared or, you or your son could have just had a bad day.
I hope you understand that KGS is not out to pick students who are from the best families or have the most money. They just want good kids and they pick those children who perform well in the tests. Its really as simple as that.
I think you will regret this article once you've come to terms with this. I hope you and your family the very best.
Regards.
To start with your views are very bitter and the article is just your frustration at the school for not getting in.
ReplyDeleteA) The criteria to get in is not to have connections or family members in the school. KGS is on of the top institutions in our country, if your son didn't make it this early on try again at a later stage. I'm sure if your son is smart enough he will make it.
B) Any good school in this entire world considers legacy. Only if you opened your eyes you would see this. Every college app has a section for "where did your parents go to college?" And "do you have any family members that ever attended this university ?" So no matter what legacy matters, stop blaming KGS.
There's a lot wrong with KGS and with the education system in Karachi and around the world but please don't act like a child and write and article out of pure frustration. My parents (both doctors with no family connections and no connections to the board) took a leave from their jobs to stand in the line and pick up a form for the third grade test. I gave it my best as my parents had taught me and because of that I got admission into the school in 3rd grade.
Its easy to rant and shout and blame the system but sometimes you have to admit harsh truth. My suggestion is don't give up if you truly believe your son is smarter than the kids that got in, if he is he should make it comfortably into the school.
I wish you the best of luck for the future and I urge you to not write such biased articles in the future. The world is a rat race to be honest if you don't believe that yet then you are strikingly naive about life.
Ps : I didn't take a single tuition to get into KGS. You don't need tuitions and connections and money. Just two hard working parents that put in a lot of effort day and night to raise me to be the best I can.
Good day sir.
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ReplyDeleteParents NEED to stop worrying about where their children go to school especially if they are planning to educate them abroad. I was a student in Bayview Academy before going to Lyceum for my A levels. I am now a graduate from the University of Toronto and would like to explain to parents that no one here cares which school you go to in Pakistan. Universities have no idea which schools are better overseas. Reviewing thousands of applicants, the only thing universities care about are your final grades in O and A level board exams, whether your children have been improving or getting worse in school through the years and their participation in extra curricular activities. The somewhat care about your grades in school but it is not a big factor in determining success.
ReplyDeleteAdditionally, which universities your children go to do NOT determine their abilities to find jobs in the future. What matters most are the skills and the people your children know. The most important thing you can do for your children at this stage is to enroll them into computer programming courses, arrange for them to participate in extra curricular activities, sports and help them develop great personalities.
Also, stop stressing yourselves and your children out so much. I remember I was so stressed during my O level exams that I could not sleep for 36 hours straight. RIght now it makes no sense to me. You perform better when you are well prepared and not under stress. Encourage your children to be social and be around good company. The personalities they will develop at this stage will affect them their whole lives. You do not want them to grow up to be perpetually stressed out individuals as that will continuously hider their progress through life.
Furthermore which universities your children go to ALSO DO NOT matter. What matters is whether they are learning, retaining what they are learning, how they get along with others an their personalities. When you graduate and look at job postings you realize two very important things. It's who you know and what you know. Knowing influential people in companies will get you the interview you want and knowing the appropriate skills will get you the job. This is where you step in.
Encourage your children to play and watch all kinds of sports, encourage them to 'hang out' with ethical people from all backgrounds, teach them to remain calm in all situations, enroll them in computer programming and data management courses like Java, Python, C, C#, SPSS, visual basic, SAS, R and help them develop a strong base in mathematics, physics and economics.
The skills mentioned above are probably the most important skills your child can learn. They will aid your children greatly in university and help them become well rounded and educated people capable of finding jobs easily.
In conclusion, do not worry where your children go to school. Focus more on them. If they are unhappy in grammar school, transfer them to another school. Schools do help shape personalities but in the end it is up to your child which path he wants to follow and be the person he/she wants to become.
Bhai thoray chutiya ho kya?
ReplyDeleteDear Shahbaz,
ReplyDeleteAs a teacher/tutor I always recommend KGS as the best option for my O levels students, primarily because in the overly competitive yet deeply tradition environment and mindset we are faced with in the market for professionals, every student is seen as a product and , well would you choose a lesser quality product?
With that in mind, apart from KGS there are several others following the same arduous track for student intakes, including St Pats; recently heard of some "Child Development Center" which is really an 'institute' to prepare children for admissions to these prestigious schools etc. Imagine the hype!
Please don't feel left out. I have gone through exactly the same situation (as a student failing to meet an 'elite' school requirements) but trust me it doesn't have to carry on if you don't want it. Like some one discussed (above) that most people are so caught up with their 'grammarian' status that they can't even tell how many alumni turned out to be notables. I'm not from KGS, but I'd name more that the poor fellow. I believe it's got not that much to do with the quality even, it's an OLD school!! It's been there for 150 years man! We are living in 2014, don't have to follow the Junejo bloodlines. In fact, it's for people like myself and as I perceivable.. you, who wish to upturn this concept of 'prestige' commonly associated with recognition of potential in our children, it's up to us to come up with and support fresh/new ideas in education. Put your belief in your child, the only Pakistani Noble prize winner wasn't from KGS or any of these old timers. If you need more consultation please write back to me through this account.
Regards.
I know exactly how you feel brother. My niece and cousin had the same experience at KGS and even Bayview. She got into Bayview after some arduous work and after using a ton of contacts :-/
ReplyDeleteThey're being selective to retain the mark achieved in decades. If they weren't pleasing towards you, it may have been more harsh. They're being diplomtically polite which I see no harm in.
ReplyDeleteAlthough yes - taking all the superior qualities, it seems less their effort to make the best of out of it.
The problem arises when education system, in all their plethora of competitions make generations a walking machine of information losing track of teaching them the basic mannerism and/or kindness. That sole be the reason of sabotaged society.
Great piece. Kudos for that. Having studied at St. Patrick's High school since grade 1, I was one of the two bright young souls who decided to apply to KGS for our A levels. During our everlasting wait for the interviews we joked about how 'burger' the crowd was and other stuff a teenager talks about. Finally after a soul crunching wait both of us got in, yay? Only to snub our places, he ended up at Pats for two more years while I took on Lyceum as my new adventure, yay!
ReplyDeleteOn a totally unrelated note, KGS in my view is overrated. There is no superior vision in the admin that other established institutions such as St. Pats don't. While as far as the junejos and talpurs and jatois are concerned, I know a few and they are surprisingly nice, great souls
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ReplyDeleteWow. Why don't we all start writing ranting blog posts about Harvard, Yale, MIT, and other Ivy Leagues? The process is pretty much the same, except on a higher educational level. So what if your child didn't get into KGS? Move on. Who rants about such a trivial matter? As per a lot of commentators theories here: people who aren't Grammarians have achieved a lot in life without ever going to that school. So why don't you apply the theory to your child? His success will be marked by what he chooses to make of himself.
ReplyDeleteEh. Those schools attempt to foster certain universally acclaimed and beneficial values. This feels more like mass production.
DeleteShabaz, are you serious?
ReplyDeleteBhai you need to move on as its not the end of life.
Hey Shahbaz,
ReplyDeleteI am a freelance feature writer and am doing a piece on the very issue you have just talked about in your blog. As a parent I would like to interview you over email and quote you in my article. Would you be interested in sharing your views? ... you search out my work online by Narjis Fatema.. I have written for Dawn and Express Tribune.
Awaiting your response :)
If it helps, after getting admitted into KGS (8 As criteria at that time), I chose another school for A Levels, a thing family or friends would not dream of doing. Of the oodles of grammarians I have known over the years, alot of them cant believe that. Too overly pretentious, overhyped and classist..weird overcompetitive and elite vibes..this Karachi Gutter School, as I call it in jest, coz its next to that epic naala.
ReplyDeleteP.s. I knew I was sorted regardless
thanks
DeleteBravo! Wish we had that self belief too
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